[ he listens, attentively as always, watching him, and -- subtle, but possibly noticeable is the way he isn't fully holding d'artagnan's eye, not chasing his gaze. he's looking slightly off to the side, clearly attentive and watching him. wash knows how he can come off, that intensity and focus in his expression that he can't at all turn off. some people find it an oddity or just a quirk that they can dismiss, some barely notice, some find it off-putting. but given that he's just told d'artagnan about his memory, that he's choosing to share some private thoughts with the same slow care from before that makes it clear he's thinking through, choosing his words -- he doesn't want to make d'artagnan feel even more self-conscious than he already does.
that its the collars, though. thats interesting. that'd been part of the trigger with natasha, too, what got them to finally start -- talking. they'd landed on not using the collars, themselves, but clearly it's worked out for d'artagnan with ororo, and, well. he and natasha still need to talk a lot more than they currently do, but file that into the blatant hypocrite file alongside everything else.
wash nods. ]
Again, there's things that you need to get by talking to her, not to me. [ like what, exactly, ororo might be want to get out of this. ] But what she was able to do for you -- Would you want to be able to do for her? Could you see yourself doing it?
[That comes out almost defensive, a little higher pitched and petulant, and D'Artagnan squirms slightly, once again harbouring thoughts that he should abandon this and talk to Ororo instead, return when he might actually benefit from instruction in the practicality of artistic knots. When he answers the questions, the first is with absolute conviction, but the second with tentative hedging.]
I want to... I think I could see myself there, but... I don't. Currently.
[With that admission, he feels as if he's made little progress in this conversation, not as swiftly as he'd like.]
I should've just said yes and tried it then.
[Thrown himself into it and let it all fall as it may.]
[ as before, wash won't balk at his defensiveness -- but as to whether he should've done it earlier? wash shrugs, with a slight shake of his head. ]
You were worried, and not without reason. I can't speak for her, but I'd much rather you be a little overly cautious instead of being gung-ho about seizing control over someone else.
[ d'artagan clearly tends towards reckless impulsivity rather than caution, but hey. when it counts, when he worries for someone he really cares about -- clearly he's capable of putting on the brakes. and wash believes that's a good thing.
now that d'artagnan's been able to reach that conclusion out loud, though, and especially with that defensiveness -- wash will turn it around back on himself, for a while. fair's fair. ]
For me, giving up control wouldn't be a relief. [ everything about even the idea of it seems absolutely fucking horrifying to wash, actually. ] So I can't do that, to get out of my head. Instead I try to do things to occupy my mind, skills like rope, but -- the memory doesn't apply to just skills. I've found that one of the ways I can most effectively get out of my own head -- is losing myself in someone else.
[ he won't describe it in detail, but with that hawkish focus in his eyes now as he meets d'artagnan's gaze -- maybe d'artagnan might be able to imagine. wash memorizes a person the same way he absorbs any other information. everything about them, from the rhythm of their breaths, how they shift their weight when they walk, how they respond when his touch brushes against a certain spot at the small of their back, how that response differs if he uses just a bit more pressure, or a bit less. wash is often laser-focused on pleasuring his partner and meeting their needs to the utter detriment of his own, and that's the way he likes it. ]
But that's all in my head. Conveying that to anyone I'm with -- there's only so much I can do. [ he gestures with a tip of his head towards the case, and there's a bit more hesitation to his words, here, trying to convey something that's always mostly been in his thoughts, that he's rarely ever needed to give actual words to. ] But with this. There's a lot that goes into tying someone intricately and safely, that counts on how well I know the rope, on how well I know them -- their body, their wants, their needs. It's almost . . . Almost a way for my touch, for my attention, to linger even when I move my hands away. To make it physical, make them -- feel it.
[ to surround them in it, to hold them in it, for them to trust it to hold them, give themselves to his attention . . . his brow knits slightly, like he's not sure if he's putting it to words in the right way. but that's as close as he's going to get, for now. ]
[Phrased that way, D'Artagnan does see his caution has merit, and that what he feels gets things to a point faster is not always best. Objectively, he knew that, it's why he'd come, why he'd asked, but at the point he starts to become frustrated with himself, he's reluctant to hold to that approach as necessary. He nods, taking a deep breath through his nose. He appreciates Wash's insight, as they agree or think similarly on some pieces of this, but oppositionally in others, and D'Artagnan feels it more and more prudent to consider both things, what he might see of himself and his thoughts in this man's circumstances, and what jars him as unwanted for himself.
Losing myself in someone else. D'Artagnan gives that the due consideration it deserves, instead of defining it quickly and objectively. A distraction merely, he could see at first, but in understanding someone in the Wash might be able to, the way the man stares at him now, penetratingly, alert in a way he hasn't ever seen, it's different. The way he speaks about it, what the intimacy of binding another this way gives him, allows him to have, D'Artagnan feel less secure in making assumptions on, but he tries. It's important that he does, that he might comprehend as much as he can. The word that comes to him is perhaps disrespectful, but he speaks it all the same.]
Possession. You wish to leave your mark on them in a way no one else can, because you know everything about them, and you can't forget it. You might posses them, as they possess your thoughts, all encompassing, where there's nothing else that exists for that moment. Place a memory of yourself on their bodies.
[His tone is questioning as it had been earlier, but he speaks more fluidly, more comfortably with it, with his suppositions whether they be correct or not.]
You want focus outside of yourself. I want an anchor.
[When D'Artagnan had reached the point of not thinking, it wasn't to escape himself, but bring more clarity to his own mind, still very self-referential, and contained in a way he feels oftentimes that he can't be, can't manage on his own.]
Possession, huh. [ not how wash tends to think of it, but he doesn't take offense to it -- he knows how he is, knows how he gets, especially in the heat of a moment. ] Yeah. I'd say that's a part of it, sometimes at least. I usually think of it less as me trying to leave a mark on them, and more -- trying to let them feel how much I'm giving them. Like a way I can lavish attention on someone, make them feel how much they are wanted.
Sometimes I think about what it really is I miss about the war. It's a lot of things. [ there is a part of him, real and present, that does miss the terrible parts of it. but. ] But it's also about -- being focused. Absolute. Everything about my mind and being being honed to a single purpose.
Often, when I get really into things -- my partner, who I'm with. That's the purpose I have. Learning everything about them so I can use it to push them as far as I can, or as far as they want, to give them what they want and need, to make them feel good along the way. Nothing else matters, in those moments. And I find that purpose anchoring, in a way.
[ wash shrugs. he's more than reached the point where it's just kind of abstract, where giving words to it doesn't even really make sense anymore, because it's not like these thoughts are ever flashing through him consciously in the heat of the moment. so he dials back a bit; ]
It isn't always so high-minded. I still just enjoy the feeling of control. Depending on who I'm with, for rope in specific, I can spend hours really lavishing attention on every knot and tie, or I can move through it fairly quickly.
[He makes a slight 'hm' noise at that explanation, some of it registering in a way he'd not have considered the act. Lavishing attention, which D'Artagnan very much likes to do, never occurred to him as what might be brought through ropes and taking control. That aspect would change it for him, take away from the affection and care in his mind, and he realises then he can't see it as something... positive. Wash's talk of purpose isn't so convoluted that he doesn't understand the basic thread of it, nor why the man might find purpose in such work, but none of it draws D'Artagnan in particular. He lets the silence drift for a moment as he gathers his thoughts, looking over at the bundles of rope again, and when he meets Wash's eyes, his own hold an apologetic gaze.]
You're right, I need to talk to her. I was... looking for a purpose in this myself, something to make me want to do it. But I don't, I still don't.
[ wash is quite comfortable in the silence, happy to let the man think, and when d'artagnan does answer, he waves his hand slightly by way of dismissing that apologetic tone, the look in his eyes. he doesn't mind this at all, and he'd expected that his own reasons wouldn't resonate with d'artagnan. everyone's different, and wash's own peculiarities have evolved over time out of his own specific circumstances. ]
I feel like if you were going to find any purpose in it? You'd find it from talking to her. [ a pause, a tip his head. ] But maybe you won't. It's always possible to play with the parameters of things, more restrictive, less restrictive, something in between -- but it also just might not be for you.
[It should've been an obvious conclusion, but D'Artagnan doesn't often find those, taking a more convoluted path that to him had seemed the easiest until he'd found himself in the midst of it and without direction. It's not uncommon. Something about this, his admission, feels like defeat all the same. He pushes himself up off the couch, and doesn't regard the ropes again, ignoring the table.]
I've not found this unhelpful, you understand. I do appreciate your insight and allowing me to see what it's brought you personally. There are complications and individual aspects I'd not fully considered or comprehended thoroughly. I'm uncertain how this will... end, for me, but trust I will endeavour to speak with you again should I proceed and wish for... more practical instruction.
[ wash doesn't move to stop d'artagnan from standing, but in his mind's eye -- he sees him sitting on the couch, turning his face away, fingers twisting into each other. the sound of his voice, deathly quiet, barely anything above a whisper, a quiet thank you. wash still doesn't know him, doesn't want to presume anything, but it just would seem remiss for him to not at least touch at it, hopefully without coming across like someone giving unwanted advice for something he probably doesn't know enough about to even begin to understand. ]
You know -- the memory thing is a bit of a living hell. But most people who hear about it won't realize that, or even consider how much it might change how I see things. To most, it's just kind of a party trick that they'll forget about.
So I appreciated that.
[ that's what wash arrives at: instead of bringing up whatever vulnerability that d'artagnan had shown in that moment, just a touch of his own. d'artagnan had cut surprisingly close to a lot of what wash grapples with, and from very little, had demonstrated an understanding of what that might do to him. and wash may not have been driven to tears for it, but he noticed and appreciated it. whatever solace wash had been able to offer for him in that moment to bring such a strong response, wash had gotten something out of talking to him, too.
but that's enough. they don't need to linger. he just wants to make sure there's an open door: ]
If you'd like to talk more sometime, you how to find me.
[ not just about rope or motorcycles or government buildings, but hey. those things too. ]
[He's not expecting anything further, and hearkening back to that has him looking at Wash directly again, not capable of the same penetrating gaze, nor would he issue it, but clearly paying attention to the words and giving them weight. His eyebrows knit together slightly, as to D'Artagnan, that was the most obvious conclusion, a hell and far from a party trick. He nods in acknowledgement of that statement. The offer to speak to him is taken an intended, about other things, things that he'd not meant to touch on perhaps, or hadn't meant to have connections with. In that, he can't see this meeting wasn't unhelpful even apart from the crux of it, in a way Wash might have gathered, D'Artagnan suspects, because he'd never been a man who could hide his feelings easily, and never had he felt something without some level of intensity to it.]
Of course. Know I offer that to you as well.
[The man doesn't seem he needs it, but if most people dismiss the harsher realities of his ability or what he's revealed of his past, it can't hurt to state he'd be similarly willing to listen.]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
that its the collars, though. thats interesting. that'd been part of the trigger with natasha, too, what got them to finally start -- talking. they'd landed on not using the collars, themselves, but clearly it's worked out for d'artagnan with ororo, and, well. he and natasha still need to talk a lot more than they currently do, but file that into the blatant hypocrite file alongside everything else.
wash nods. ]
Again, there's things that you need to get by talking to her, not to me. [ like what, exactly, ororo might be want to get out of this. ] But what she was able to do for you -- Would you want to be able to do for her? Could you see yourself doing it?
no subject
[That comes out almost defensive, a little higher pitched and petulant, and D'Artagnan squirms slightly, once again harbouring thoughts that he should abandon this and talk to Ororo instead, return when he might actually benefit from instruction in the practicality of artistic knots. When he answers the questions, the first is with absolute conviction, but the second with tentative hedging.]
I want to... I think I could see myself there, but... I don't. Currently.
[With that admission, he feels as if he's made little progress in this conversation, not as swiftly as he'd like.]
I should've just said yes and tried it then.
[Thrown himself into it and let it all fall as it may.]
no subject
You were worried, and not without reason. I can't speak for her, but I'd much rather you be a little overly cautious instead of being gung-ho about seizing control over someone else.
[ d'artagan clearly tends towards reckless impulsivity rather than caution, but hey. when it counts, when he worries for someone he really cares about -- clearly he's capable of putting on the brakes. and wash believes that's a good thing.
now that d'artagnan's been able to reach that conclusion out loud, though, and especially with that defensiveness -- wash will turn it around back on himself, for a while. fair's fair. ]
For me, giving up control wouldn't be a relief. [ everything about even the idea of it seems absolutely fucking horrifying to wash, actually. ] So I can't do that, to get out of my head. Instead I try to do things to occupy my mind, skills like rope, but -- the memory doesn't apply to just skills. I've found that one of the ways I can most effectively get out of my own head -- is losing myself in someone else.
[ he won't describe it in detail, but with that hawkish focus in his eyes now as he meets d'artagnan's gaze -- maybe d'artagnan might be able to imagine. wash memorizes a person the same way he absorbs any other information. everything about them, from the rhythm of their breaths, how they shift their weight when they walk, how they respond when his touch brushes against a certain spot at the small of their back, how that response differs if he uses just a bit more pressure, or a bit less. wash is often laser-focused on pleasuring his partner and meeting their needs to the utter detriment of his own, and that's the way he likes it. ]
But that's all in my head. Conveying that to anyone I'm with -- there's only so much I can do. [ he gestures with a tip of his head towards the case, and there's a bit more hesitation to his words, here, trying to convey something that's always mostly been in his thoughts, that he's rarely ever needed to give actual words to. ] But with this. There's a lot that goes into tying someone intricately and safely, that counts on how well I know the rope, on how well I know them -- their body, their wants, their needs. It's almost . . . Almost a way for my touch, for my attention, to linger even when I move my hands away. To make it physical, make them -- feel it.
[ to surround them in it, to hold them in it, for them to trust it to hold them, give themselves to his attention . . . his brow knits slightly, like he's not sure if he's putting it to words in the right way. but that's as close as he's going to get, for now. ]
no subject
Losing myself in someone else. D'Artagnan gives that the due consideration it deserves, instead of defining it quickly and objectively. A distraction merely, he could see at first, but in understanding someone in the Wash might be able to, the way the man stares at him now, penetratingly, alert in a way he hasn't ever seen, it's different. The way he speaks about it, what the intimacy of binding another this way gives him, allows him to have, D'Artagnan feel less secure in making assumptions on, but he tries. It's important that he does, that he might comprehend as much as he can. The word that comes to him is perhaps disrespectful, but he speaks it all the same.]
Possession. You wish to leave your mark on them in a way no one else can, because you know everything about them, and you can't forget it. You might posses them, as they possess your thoughts, all encompassing, where there's nothing else that exists for that moment. Place a memory of yourself on their bodies.
[His tone is questioning as it had been earlier, but he speaks more fluidly, more comfortably with it, with his suppositions whether they be correct or not.]
You want focus outside of yourself. I want an anchor.
[When D'Artagnan had reached the point of not thinking, it wasn't to escape himself, but bring more clarity to his own mind, still very self-referential, and contained in a way he feels oftentimes that he can't be, can't manage on his own.]
no subject
Sometimes I think about what it really is I miss about the war. It's a lot of things. [ there is a part of him, real and present, that does miss the terrible parts of it. but. ] But it's also about -- being focused. Absolute. Everything about my mind and being being honed to a single purpose.
Often, when I get really into things -- my partner, who I'm with. That's the purpose I have. Learning everything about them so I can use it to push them as far as I can, or as far as they want, to give them what they want and need, to make them feel good along the way. Nothing else matters, in those moments. And I find that purpose anchoring, in a way.
[ wash shrugs. he's more than reached the point where it's just kind of abstract, where giving words to it doesn't even really make sense anymore, because it's not like these thoughts are ever flashing through him consciously in the heat of the moment. so he dials back a bit; ]
It isn't always so high-minded. I still just enjoy the feeling of control. Depending on who I'm with, for rope in specific, I can spend hours really lavishing attention on every knot and tie, or I can move through it fairly quickly.
no subject
You're right, I need to talk to her. I was... looking for a purpose in this myself, something to make me want to do it. But I don't, I still don't.
no subject
I feel like if you were going to find any purpose in it? You'd find it from talking to her. [ a pause, a tip his head. ] But maybe you won't. It's always possible to play with the parameters of things, more restrictive, less restrictive, something in between -- but it also just might not be for you.
no subject
[It should've been an obvious conclusion, but D'Artagnan doesn't often find those, taking a more convoluted path that to him had seemed the easiest until he'd found himself in the midst of it and without direction. It's not uncommon. Something about this, his admission, feels like defeat all the same. He pushes himself up off the couch, and doesn't regard the ropes again, ignoring the table.]
I've not found this unhelpful, you understand. I do appreciate your insight and allowing me to see what it's brought you personally. There are complications and individual aspects I'd not fully considered or comprehended thoroughly. I'm uncertain how this will... end, for me, but trust I will endeavour to speak with you again should I proceed and wish for... more practical instruction.
no subject
[ wash doesn't move to stop d'artagnan from standing, but in his mind's eye -- he sees him sitting on the couch, turning his face away, fingers twisting into each other. the sound of his voice, deathly quiet, barely anything above a whisper, a quiet thank you. wash still doesn't know him, doesn't want to presume anything, but it just would seem remiss for him to not at least touch at it, hopefully without coming across like someone giving unwanted advice for something he probably doesn't know enough about to even begin to understand. ]
You know -- the memory thing is a bit of a living hell. But most people who hear about it won't realize that, or even consider how much it might change how I see things. To most, it's just kind of a party trick that they'll forget about.
So I appreciated that.
[ that's what wash arrives at: instead of bringing up whatever vulnerability that d'artagnan had shown in that moment, just a touch of his own. d'artagnan had cut surprisingly close to a lot of what wash grapples with, and from very little, had demonstrated an understanding of what that might do to him. and wash may not have been driven to tears for it, but he noticed and appreciated it. whatever solace wash had been able to offer for him in that moment to bring such a strong response, wash had gotten something out of talking to him, too.
but that's enough. they don't need to linger. he just wants to make sure there's an open door: ]
If you'd like to talk more sometime, you how to find me.
[ not just about rope or motorcycles or government buildings, but hey. those things too. ]
no subject
Of course. Know I offer that to you as well.
[The man doesn't seem he needs it, but if most people dismiss the harsher realities of his ability or what he's revealed of his past, it can't hurt to state he'd be similarly willing to listen.]